In this episode, Zach talks to Jesse Hanley about Bento – the email marketing tool.
In today’s episode, you’ll learn how Jesse went from being a solo freelancer to building a 25-person agency, then selling everything and launching a SaaS email marketing product.
Jesse talks about the challenges of growing an agency, including lead flow, having a small team, and the benefits of a simple business model.
We go in-depth on how being truly helpful online can lead to big clients and whether you should continue growing your business or focus on doing your best work every day.
- 12:00 – 2:00 — Zach introduces Jesse, who founded Bento, an email marketing software they use. Zach praises Bento and mentions the passage of Convert Kit.
- 2:00 – 4:00 p.m. – Zach asks Jesse about getting started in freelancing. Jesse shares his experience working at a supplement company in Australia before moving into consulting.
- 4:00 – 6:00 p.m. — Jesse shares how he moved from retail to technology within the same company. He explains how he has been proactive in suggesting and implementing technological solutions.
- 6:00 – 8:00 p.m. — Zach and Jesse discuss the pros and cons of working at a small, fast-paced company versus a larger, more bureaucratic company. Jesse mentions that the company made millions in revenue.
- 8:00 – 10:00 — Jesse explains his transition to remote work. He shares tips on how to negotiate remote work and how he started recruiting other clients.
- 10:20 – 12:00 — Zach explains how he got into niche communities he’s interested in, like Nomad List, and how that led him to great clients.
- 12:00 – 2:00 p.m. — Zach discusses his early career goals, focusing on survival and realizing his dream of working remotely.
- 2:00 – 4:00 p.m. — Zach shares the importance of being active in online communities and building relationships to attract customers.
- 4:00 – 6:00 p.m. — Zach talks about being a “helpful neighbor” online and how that has led to business opportunities over time.
- 6:00 – 8:00 p.m. — Zach gives advice on balancing helping and self-promotion in online communities.
- 8:18 p.m. – 10:18 p.m. — Zach talks about the importance of real engagement in online forums for SEO and how it generates leads.
- 22:18 – 24:18 — Zach discusses the growth of his team and how he started recruiting more people as the workload increased.
- 24:18 – 26:18 — Zach shares the challenges of managing a growing team and how that led to stress and mistakes.
- 26:18 – 28:18 — Zach talks about pivoting his business model to focus on what he loves, which is hiring writers for his clients.
- 28:18 – 30:18 — Zach explains how the new business model has been easier to sell and manage, and also touches on the topic of value-based pricing.
- 31:00 – 33:00 — Zach talks about the value of his service product and how it reduces risk for customers.
- 33:00 – 35:00 — Zach explains the benefits of his service, like fast results and easy feedback.
- 35:00 – 37:00 — Zach explains how his service is low risk and cost effective compared to traditional SEO agencies.
- 37:00 – 39:00 — Zach shares his team structure and how they handle content creation and editing.
- 39:00 – 41:00 — Zach talks about his business strategy, emphasizing the importance of being easily reachable for calls.
- 41:00 – 43:00 — Zach discusses his customer qualification process and the importance of not hot-selling.
- 43:00 – 45:00 — Zach talks about the challenges of growing an agency and the need for consistent lead flow.
- 45:00 – 47:00 — Zach explains how his new business model reduced stress and increased predictability.
- 47:00 – 49:00 — Zach explains the benefits of having a smaller team and a simplified service offering.
- 49:00 – 51:00 — Jesse describes the structure of his team, emphasizing the minimal management required.
- 51:00 – 53:00 — Jesse talks about flexibility and understanding between clients and contractors, even during personal issues like breakups.
- 53:00 – 55:00 — Jesse and Zach discuss using Basecamp for project management and how it streamlines communication.
- 55:00 – 57:00 — Zach explores the idea of product services and Jesse explains how his business model focuses on what he loves.
- 57:00 – 59:00 — Zach and Jesse dive into the challenges of scaling and the importance of markup in pricing.
- 59:00 – 01:01:00 — Jesse gives advice on the need for competitive advantage and how to keep everyone in the business model happy.
- 1:00:58 – 1:02:58 — Jesse talks about the importance of having good margins in business and making the price a “no-brainer” for customers.
- 1:02:58 – 1:04:58 — Zach agrees and adds that writing is an integral part of business, which makes maintaining the service a no-brainer.
- 1:04:58 – 1:06:58 — Jesse explains why his business model works, focusing on value and low churn rates.
- 1:06:58 – 1:08:58 — Zach and Jesse talk about the benefits of a simple business model and how it has helped Jesse.
- 1:08:58 – 1:10:58 — Jesse shares his experience with his team and how he should have listened to his instincts before working with a specific group.
- 1:11:00 – 1:13:00 — Jesse talks about the importance of screening clients and team members for better mental health.
- 1:13:00 – 1:15:00 — Jesse shares stories of good and bad customer interactions, emphasizing the value of kindness.
- 1:15:00 – 1:17:00 — Jesse explains how giving team members permission to communicate builds their trust.
- 1:17:00 – 1:19:00 — Zach and Jesse explore effective communication structures for freelancers, focusing on automated check-ins.
- 1:19:00 – 1:21:00 — Jesse advises integrating the client’s existing communications tools and keeping updates short and frequent.
- 1:21:00 – 1:23:00 — Jesse and Zach discuss the importance of clear communication in freelancing and how that led Jesse to hire Anya.
- 1:23:00 – 1:25:00 — Zach talks about automating tasks in Zapier and highlights that consistent communication has been key to Jesse’s success.
- 1:25:00 – 1:27:00 — Jesse shares Bento’s journey from its experimental phase to becoming a competitive email marketing tool.
- 1:27:00 – 1:29:00 — Jesse talks about selling his agency and how that allowed him to focus on Bento, ultimately outpacing agency revenue.
- 1:29:00 – 1:31:00 — Zach asks what made Jesse confident enough to double down on Bento, and Jesse explains that it was a mix of timing and market need.
- 1:31:00 – 1:33:00 — Zach asks Jesse about validating a product before investing time and resources. Jesse discusses the importance of “taste” in product development.
- 1:33:00 – 1:35:00 — Jesse explains how personality influences the type of products you can develop. Zach presents a potential roadmap for transforming an agency into a SaaS business.
- 1:35:00 – 1:37:00 — Jesse shares his thoughts on the value of specialized hosting services. He mentions a friend who had success offering an “incident team” for website issues.
- 1:37:00 – 1:39:00 — Zach and Jesse discuss the benefits of a hybrid SaaS and service model. Jesse explains how managed accounts helped him improve his product.
- 1:39:00 – 1:41:00 — Zach praises the hybrid model for its financial viability and customer feedback. Jesse emphasizes that close interaction with the customer helps improve the product.
- 1:42:00 – 1:44:00 — Jesse talks about the power of being helpful online and how it led to a $2,000/month client.
- 1:44:00 – 1:46:00 — Zach and Jesse discuss the importance of targeting the customers you care about for long-term success.
- 1:46:00 – 1:48:42 — Jesse advises focusing on your best work every day instead of getting lost in scaling goals.