David Perell helps people improve their writing skills. Her company offers an online course, author interviews on YouTube, and a weekly newsletter. But its broader goal is to support excellence.
He told me, “It’s worth doing great work, whatever you do.” The modern world is polluted by mediocrity.
He and I recently spoke. We discussed writing and speaking and their impact on entrepreneurial success. The full audio of our conversation is embedded below. The transcript is edited for length and quality.
Eric Bandholz: Tell us who you are.
David Perell: I help people become better writers. I offer an online course called “Write of Passage.” Around 1,000 learners each year, of all levels of expertise, register.
My YouTube channel has several playlists for authors. One of them is called “How I Write,” in which I interview renowned bloggers, journalists and teachers.
“North Star Podcast” was my audio show. I published 90 episodes from 2017 to 2021. I started the podcast after I was laid off. I had no goal or competitive advantage. I couldn’t find my North Star, so I started the podcast.
Over the next few years, I interviewed people to find out who they are, what they do, and how they think. I ended up stopping the podcast because it didn’t fit in with the other things I was working on, but it helped me figure out what to do with my life.
Bandholz: You have notable entrepreneurs on your YouTube channel.
Perell: I spend a lot of time thinking about what I have a talent for. I come alive when I’m around successful people, in a way that’s hard to explain. I always liked being with older men. There is a certain peace and robustness amidst the chaos that surrounds them. I loved playing golf when I was younger because I could go out on the course and hang out with guys in their 60s, 70s and 80s. We would go 18 holes, hit balls on the driving range and talk about life. I think it’s the best way to learn.
I recently had Marc Andreesen on the show. I sent him the trailer for my channel, which I had carefully put together. The aesthetic instantly communicates a feeling of seriousness and quality, and a trailer makes a stronger impression than a textual description. I wrote Marc a note with it, saying that I had just launched a YouTube playlist called “How I Write.” I included the names of prominent guests and stated that I would like to interview him. Then I let the video do the talking.
It’s worth doing great work, whatever you do. The return to being the best in the world in your chosen profession continues to increase. The modern world is polluted by mediocrity and a sense of casualness that harms creators.
Bandholz: How do you help people improve their writing skills?
Perell: I use a three-pillar framework that I call POP: personal, observational, and playful. “Personal” is about telling stories about yourself that provide credibility. For example, no one wants to read about the person discussing their PhD at Harvard. It’s much better to share a personal story. “Observational” conveys your ideas. How is your writing useful? What do you teach your readers? “Playful” means bringing personality and characteristics that set you apart. Writing and speaking benefit from all three.
It’s easy to improve your speaking skills. I will listen to this entire podcast, observing my speech patterns, my cadence and narration, my anecdotes and my tempo. Do I need to speed up or slow down? For video interviews, I will watch myself speak.
Phenomenal CEOs are great at throwing out catchphrases and telling the same stories over and over. They make adjustments. They look at people’s eyes. They notice where they laugh and where listeners are interested in what they are saying. They are like actors: they say the same things over and over. It’s an art.
Bandholz: What is the vision behind “Write of Passage”, your course?
Perell: I’m invested in being surrounded by smart, ambitious people who want to write and get their ideas out into the world. Smart people read, and successful people read the most. Writing will therefore remain relevant among thinkers. I want to be their go-to resource.
I try to attract the most valuable audience in this niche. I learned a lot from my friends David Senra, who runs a podcast called “Founders,” and from Patrick O’Shaughnessy, with his show “Invest Like the Best.” I want with writers what David has with entrepreneurs and Patrick has with investors.
“Write of Passage” is a five-week online course. It costs $3,995. We receive a few hundred registrations. We have approximately 35 subcontractors who edit each registrant’s piece, with an average turnaround time of 18 hours. We have mentors who help students navigate the emotional challenges of learning to write and instructors who focus on specific aspects, such as how to find your voice and tell a story.
Bandholz: Where can people support you?
Perell: My website is Perell.com. You can find the “Write a passage» of course there. Check out “How I Write” on my Youtube channel. My Twitter is @david_perell.